Mar 29, 2007, 06:03 AM // 06:03
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#21
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Guild: [GSS][SoF][DIII]
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The party-bar-off RA suggestion is a bit of an exagerration, imo. I've done it before, and while it can be challenging and induce some learning, it is not necessarily the best way to learn. Learning to visually prot is very important, and taking off the party bar will force you to do that. But then again, nowdays monking in arenas is pretty difficult compared to what it once was. Monking RA without a party bar was most possible in the boon prot days, ever since then its gotten progressively less easy. So I conclude that monking without a party bar is more a thing that already accomplished monks can do for fun and to prove that they can, etc. Nearly all new monks seeking to learn will pretty much just die miserably and get discouraged if they try it.
On the subject of prots:
Most decent monks can make hp bars go up, so intelligent use of healing is now tablestakes for high level monking. Thus, protection spells are one of the few ways possible that make it possible for an awesome monk to distinguish himself from the crowd of decent monks (and thus hold a very special place in my heart, but I digress). Anyways, the basic concept behind prot, as you have undoubtedly gathered, is to prevent red bars from going down, rather than make them go back up (the job of healing prayers). Protecting is desirable over healing for multiple reasons, including but not limited to time saving, spike prevention, and energy efficiency.
- Time saving. Prots will be working for you for their entire duration, sometimes even increasing in power over time (shield of absorption). Thus, if you have your prot spell(s) in place, you are free to do other things. Monks always have things they can do. Use the extra time to cast a free Devo Sig, or to get into a safer position, or to get more prots in place, etc.
For example. There is a warrior chasing you, and another one chasing your allied mesmer. You dont really have time to heal both, especially since you want to kite from the warrior on you. So, you can cast Spirit Bond on your mesmer, and the spirit bond will do your work for you (its very good against Dervishes) for its duration, and you are more or less free to worry only about the warrior on you.
-Spike prevention. Even with a good infuser, it is often easier, always safer, to save a spike with protection spells instead. Prot spells (especially Spirit Bond and Prot Spirit) are very good in this role. Prot spells get better and better with more and more people piling on their biggest damage. The one time you can be sure your ally is about to take a helluva load of damage is during a spike (This is where Visual Prot is key)
Example. The enemy has 2 warriors that have been more or less on different targets the entire game. Suddenly you see them converge to one target. You realize this as a clue that they will spike and prot him up accordingly. Optimally, your prot will be in place just before the warriors start unloading.
-Energy Efficiency. This is the big one. If used well, protection spells can be much more efficient than any healing spell. This is especially the case during a spike, where spirit bond and prot spirit can prevent and heal back insane amounts of damage. However, the enemy isnt always spiking, so what do you do in between?
This is the #1 flaw I find with most otherwise decent monks. They are overeager to prot. Its almost as if they think that just because a warrior is attacking one of your allies, it automatically makes it a good idea to prot that ally. BIG MISTAKE. You must weigh against many other factors, primarily: will your prot spell prevent more damage than you could have just healed back? The enemy isnt spiking, theres little risk they will die. So, will your little 5e prot spell prevent more damage than your 5e heal would heal? A standard 5e spell to compare to is Gift of Health, which heals about 100. Will your prot prevent 100 damage? Often it will not, and in those cases it is better not to prot. You must be even more judicial with your 10e prots. Those things are worth 2 Gifts. You have to get about 200 hp worth of prevention to make them "worth it".
Example. A long time ago (factions seasons, I think) I observed a game. I noticed the peculiar behavior of one of the monks. It was clear that he was paying VERY big attention to the battlefield, because every single time the thumper on the enemy team changed targets, he would have a prot spirit ready on his new target. Almost as if he had to prove, 'Im watching you thumper, I know what you're trying', or something. I bet he felt really clever for being able to pay so much attention to the battle, but in reality it was a colossal waste of energy. Hes lucky if those prots prevented anything at all - thumpers rarely inficlt 10% damage in any single packet.
So to recap -
1) Watch the field more than the HP bars. Use what you observe to help predict where damage will go before it arrives, so you arent surprised and (hopefully) have the prots set before the damage comes.
2) Use prots to save time and foil spikes. Its often safer, easier, and more energy efficient than trying to heal it back all, infuse or not.
3) If you dont detect an incoming "full spike", be very judicious with your use of prots. You must have very good reason to believe that you will 'get your money's worth', so to speak. Dont overprot.
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Mar 29, 2007, 06:52 AM // 06:52
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#22
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Nov 2006
Guild: NiTe
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I think its a good hint to try prot on sight, so recognize conditions by animations that need be removed, look at the position of potential targets. I think it makes protting quite powerfull. I'm just about to try and learn that to myself.
However I think protting/healing without bar in RA or TA will be quite difficult. The bars on top of the toons are not always represented (at least not in my setup if u know how to do this I will be glad to hear about it), so a quick peek must be made to see who needs healing and who can be preprotted to receive a later heal after the first heal has been made. I think the dualistic healing and protection role of RA/TA monks make it more difficult to go without party bar.
@ Neo-LD: I agree with most off what u said (and u are most likely more experienced in monking than I am ) but on Reversal of fortune versus gift of health we can discuss a bit I think. Protection by RoF would heal for 16 at protection 10 (58 damage mitigated and healed another 42 taken in the case of 100 damage), GoH would the target let take 100 damage and heal for 105 at 10 healing prayers, now I dont know what the typical attributes are on a hybrid, but for heal u will take damage anyway so u go down and up in health and its slower too. The reversal prot is fast and prevents the damage from actually landing. GoH should be used when (IMHO) the target needs healing but has no risk of dying due oppertunistic predators in vincinity. So i would prefer to (pre)prot him with RoF, and then use GoH (if low on health). Maybe this is wrong, but then, I have no doubt, u will explain that to me. If he/she is in no immediate danger i would rather make his health go up, saving the prot for others in more need.
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Mar 29, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41
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#23
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Academy Page
Join Date: Mar 2006
Guild: Project Teamwork [ptw]
Profession: Mo/
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See I find when there is a lot going on on the screen - different animations / movements - u being knockdown by thumpers / hammer wars it can be very difficult to pay attention to the battlefield.
Hence, I suggest this - as soon as you enter battle look at the oppositions professions and try to get an early indication of what your up against. Normally players are predictable and you know who the target will be so keep your eye on them on the party bar and get rdy to prot.
You have to keep checking your effects monitor - wheres my veil gone oh no migraine!!!! look out for aoe effects those are easily noticed. When under pressure just keep MOVING!!! click through party members from the bar see there position - What they are doing? how much damage there taking? oh war doesn't seem to be hitting pre-veil catch the price of failure / reckless haste! "With necro on target" Scroll through enemies every now and then as they may suprise you. Got caught with Mark Of Subversion sometime but DOH!!! You should know he has that when using Spoil Victor.
Oh know ZB hit with distract shot!!! Okay pretty good interupter try to use rof for most of the game until he changes targets as he can't do much!
I'm not a great monk and I play by using instincts which works well...would not be able to play without a party member. Yes I look on the battefield / compass map. Checking positioning but most times I casually glance whilst part of my eye is always on the PARTY BAR you just can't let it leave your eye for more than a second!
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Mar 29, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15
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#24
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I like yumy food!
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Where I can eat yumy food
Guild: Dead Alley [dR]
Profession: Mo/R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-LD
The party-bar-off RA suggestion is a bit of an exagerration, imo. I've done it before, and while it can be challenging and induce some learning, it is not necessarily the best way to learn. Learning to visually prot is very important, and taking off the party bar will force you to do that. But then again, nowdays monking in arenas is pretty difficult compared to what it once was. Monking RA without a party bar was most possible in the boon prot days, ever since then its gotten progressively less easy. So I conclude that monking without a party bar is more a thing that already accomplished monks can do for fun and to prove that they can, etc. Nearly all new monks seeking to learn will pretty much just die miserably and get discouraged if they try it.
On the subject of prots:
Most decent monks can make hp bars go up, so intelligent use of healing is now tablestakes for high level monking. Thus, protection spells are one of the few ways possible that make it possible for an awesome monk to distinguish himself from the crowd of decent monks (and thus hold a very special place in my heart, but I digress). Anyways, the basic concept behind prot, as you have undoubtedly gathered, is to prevent red bars from going down, rather than make them go back up (the job of healing prayers). Protecting is desirable over healing for multiple reasons, including but not limited to time saving, spike prevention, and energy efficiency.
- Time saving. Prots will be working for you for their entire duration, sometimes even increasing in power over time (shield of absorption). Thus, if you have your prot spell(s) in place, you are free to do other things. Monks always have things they can do. Use the extra time to cast a free Devo Sig, or to get into a safer position, or to get more prots in place, etc.
For example. There is a warrior chasing you, and another one chasing your allied mesmer. You dont really have time to heal both, especially since you want to kite from the warrior on you. So, you can cast Spirit Bond on your mesmer, and the spirit bond will do your work for you (its very good against Dervishes) for its duration, and you are more or less free to worry only about the warrior on you.
-Spike prevention. Even with a good infuser, it is often easier, always safer, to save a spike with protection spells instead. Prot spells (especially Spirit Bond and Prot Spirit) are very good in this role. Prot spells get better and better with more and more people piling on their biggest damage. The one time you can be sure your ally is about to take a helluva load of damage is during a spike (This is where Visual Prot is key)
Example. The enemy has 2 warriors that have been more or less on different targets the entire game. Suddenly you see them converge to one target. You realize this as a clue that they will spike and prot him up accordingly. Optimally, your prot will be in place just before the warriors start unloading.
-Energy Efficiency. This is the big one. If used well, protection spells can be much more efficient than any healing spell. This is especially the case during a spike, where spirit bond and prot spirit can prevent and heal back insane amounts of damage. However, the enemy isnt always spiking, so what do you do in between?
This is the #1 flaw I find with most otherwise decent monks. They are overeager to prot. Its almost as if they think that just because a warrior is attacking one of your allies, it automatically makes it a good idea to prot that ally. BIG MISTAKE. You must weigh against many other factors, primarily: will your prot spell prevent more damage than you could have just healed back? The enemy isnt spiking, theres little risk they will die. So, will your little 5e prot spell prevent more damage than your 5e heal would heal? A standard 5e spell to compare to is Gift of Health, which heals about 100. Will your prot prevent 100 damage? Often it will not, and in those cases it is better not to prot. You must be even more judicial with your 10e prots. Those things are worth 2 Gifts. You have to get about 200 hp worth of prevention to make them "worth it".
Example. A long time ago (factions seasons, I think) I observed a game. I noticed the peculiar behavior of one of the monks. It was clear that he was paying VERY big attention to the battlefield, because every single time the thumper on the enemy team changed targets, he would have a prot spirit ready on his new target. Almost as if he had to prove, 'Im watching you thumper, I know what you're trying', or something. I bet he felt really clever for being able to pay so much attention to the battle, but in reality it was a colossal waste of energy. Hes lucky if those prots prevented anything at all - thumpers rarely inficlt 10% damage in any single packet.
So to recap -
1) Watch the field more than the HP bars. Use what you observe to help predict where damage will go before it arrives, so you arent surprised and (hopefully) have the prots set before the damage comes.
2) Use prots to save time and foil spikes. Its often safer, easier, and more energy efficient than trying to heal it back all, infuse or not.
3) If you dont detect an incoming "full spike", be very judicious with your use of prots. You must have very good reason to believe that you will 'get your money's worth', so to speak. Dont overprot.
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That is way too deep for my little mind to comprehend. I thought it was all natural? :P
Anyways, really nicely written...
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